Wicca

[Heka]

WS your arguments are sooo good! but I like Hedges better.

BUT I still think anyone can be wiccan WITHOUT being initiated and gone through all the pomp and ceremony.
It might define a difference between an initiated wiccan and an uninitiated wiccan - but so freaking what.
Doesn't make the one less valid in my eyes.

Thats the main point i think, or at least its mine.

[watershield]

Well, I guess the only reply I can think of is that it's the difference of being baptised or not.

[shrine]

i don't think it really matters what part of magic and nature you are from, we need differences like paganism, wicca and so on. think of magic and nature like a clock. it needs all the different cogs for it to function properly.

I'm a wiccan, so whats so bad about me?

I've heard of these conversations before, but it was by Catholics, Christians, and the Jewish people. saying which one was bad and what not.

Lets not get into a mess like they did.

O and i haven't been "baptised" into Wicca because there arn't any where i live, so i have noone to help me. i'm wiccan, because i feel it inside me, not because ive had a moonlight party with people saying that i am now one of them.

[Jen]

No-one is saying what is "bad" or "good" here shrine.
We are able to give our thoughts and opinions on a very interesting topic of discussion at a level of understanding between us all.
Most people here embrace our differences - I know I do.

;D

[artemissongbird]

I belong to a number of forums and lately the introductions are starting to wear me out....
"Hi, my name is Buffy, I'm 13 and have been Wicca for 6 weeks"
ARGGGGGGGGGGG! - okay maybe you cannot become Wiccan in 6 weeks. It does take a long long time to study and I myself have only just in the last few months started caling myself Wiccan after 7 years of study and practise! Previous to that I was just an "eceletic pagan" I guess. But saying that, everyone has to start somewhere!

If you like to draw, does that make you an architech.
No, you need to attend school, become accredited and become a member of that society. - Okay I can draw, paint, create and I would call myself an artist. I can also play several instruments and would call myself a musican, HOWEVER I have not been accredited and become a member of any society to get these titles. It is something I have learnt and done for what all my life! If someone has been doing something similar with Wicca, why can they not be called a Wiccan?

If you believe in Christ, does that make you a Chatholic?
No, you may be a Christian, but to become a Chatholic you need to study the ways of the church, be accepted by the church and be baptised into that faith. They even give you a certificate! - many christians do not even attend church nowadays. Catholism is a sector of Christianity, maybe the modern Christian is becoming more solitary, a new sector just like Wicca has divided into many different traditions. Just a little thought.

The same is true with Wicca. It is an established religion that requires you to study the tradition of that order you wish to join, be accepted by that tradition and be initiated into that coven.
You should also understand that not all Wiccians are witches. Many do not do spell work at all.
Wicca is not turning your back on the dogma of the church, rather it is dogma based on a different set of beliefs. - Ther word Wiccan / Wicca, as quoted from Stewart and Janet Farraris: "Like most modern witches, we call the Craft "Wicca". This has become a well-established, and much-loved, useage, and there is every reason why it should continue - but we might as well be honest and admit that it is an effect a new word, mistakenly derived. The Old English for 'witchcraft' was wicca-craeft, not wicca. Wicca meant 'a male witch' (fem = wicce, plural = wiccan), from the verb wiccian 'to bewitch', to practise witchcraft', which the Oxford English Dictionary says is 'of obscure origin'." Sooo basicaly to say alot of Wiccans dont even practise Witchcraft seems a little odd to me as Wiccian means 'to practise Witchcraft'

Without that process you are a pagan that shares some of the ideas of wicca as you have been expossed to them, But you are not Wiccian.

It's become very easy for people to read half a dozen books, to take a bit of this and a bit of that because it feels right, and declair themselves a wiccian. Even to the point of doing a self dedication.
But in my view, your still not a wiccian. After all, can a man read the bible, self dedicate himself to God and walk into a church and declair himself a priest? - Again I have done a self-dedication and do not feel my faith any less valid than someone who is in a coven. I am joining a coven at the moment but they too do not and would never say I am not already wiccan. In fact that would find this statement offensive, for someone to tell others what they do or do not believe - as your statement suggests your trying to say :s


Mmmm just if your statements could have some evidence to back it up and why you say people cannot believe what they want to believe? and why people cannot follow their own faith without someone telling them they are allowed to? many thanks

[lisa]

Here's my philosphical thought of the day

and by the way artemissongbird although I disagree with your position, I love your use of the OED...

anyway...

I was raised Catholic...was baptized, had my Pennance, Communion, and Confirmation. I chose not to get married in the church...or else I would have that sacrament under my belt also. I am not a priest, so that one is N/A and I am not dead or dying so Last Rites also moot...But other that that I performed the ceremonies...and have a whole mess of official documents proving I am Catholic...and attended Mass every Sunday and Holidays for most my life and did the whole ashes thing every Ash Wednesday, and gave up my favorite things for lent...and even had my son baptized to get my mother off my back...ect...however...

I do not believe in the dogma, I began questioning it from the first grade and was ignored by my parents and teachers...but, I believe firmly in the set of beliefs associated with Wicca.

So what am I?...my papers and rituals, and initiations say I am Catholic, my heart says I am a Wiccan...(I am a solitaire with no intention of joing a coven, so I unlike the Catholicism, do not have any papers or fancy rituals to prove I am a Wiccan)

In the scheme of things, which matters more...official rituals and/or documents or belief and actions? And who exactly am I proving it to?

[watershield]

I'm always fasinated by how hard people will argue to be recignised as such and such just so they can have a lable.

By identifying as a pagan we are saying that we do not follow the teachings of the God of Abraham. Pagans include Shamen, Druids, Animists, Wiccians, Hindu, Buddhists, and many many more paths.
Everyone has said in one way or another, you have to start some place. Yes, I agree. It's realising your not a Christian, Muslim, or a Jew and that makes you a pagan.

Once you realise that you are a pagan, then you can start to learn just what path has called to you.
That may well be a Wiccian path.

[lisa]

I guess being a person with some self-esteem issues...a label seems necessary, comforting...but I can identify with being a "pagan on a Wiccian path"...I can live with that ;D

[Butterfly]

May 13, 2008 17:43:23 GMT 1 watershield said:

I belong to a number of forums and lately the introductions are starting to wear me out....
"Hi, my name is Buffy, I'm 13 and have been Wicca for 6 weeks"
ARGGGGGGGGGGG!

this will not put a stop to it, but I just needed to vent a tad

WS, what forums?

[watershield]

;D When I wrote that I was a member of 6 forums. I'm down to three now. The other two shall remain nameless....for now

[Butterfly]

Dec 9, 2008 8:59:31 GMT 1 watershield said:

;D When I wrote that I was a member of 6 forums. I'm down to three now. The other two shall remain nameless....for now

LOL WS

I am a member of two - this place being one of the two...

[createholly]

Hey all. Haven't been on the boards in a while! I recently discovered exactly what this thread is talking about. I'm so grateful this is here WS. I have been practicing what I thought was Wicca for 11 years. I had been initiated into a coven, but that coven has dissolved and I no longer believe it was a true coven of the Wiccan beliefs. So upon having my illusions dashed to the rocks I feel left adrift. To find out the God and Goddess I worship are not the real ones, and that I've been betrayed by popular media and Silver Ravenwolf?. It hurts. For me what I had been practicing had become a big part of my life and heart. To find out I am.....not....well I don't know how else to say it. I'm pretending to be Wiccan. I'm very distraught about it.
My deepest wish is to learn the true ways and communicate to the God and Goddess. How can I, in perfect love and trust, do this when I don't have a clue about anything? I'm not going to arbitrarily join the next coven I come across but I've been looking for a coven since the one I was part of dissolved with no luck at all. So I wonder, almost despair, of ever learning Wicca.
Do you have any advice?

[watershield]

Good to see you back CH. And sorry to hear of your coven problems.
Unfortunately, far to many covens have been started by one or several people who know very little but love the theatrics running a coven affords them.
Advise........all I can tell you is what I understand. That being that Isis, Zeus, and the rest are not "Gods" They are beings just as you and I are and they will from time to time interact with us and act as a guide. When they do, seldom will they come right out and give you an answer, rather they will only point you in a direction and allow you to find your own truth.
If being Christian or Jew or what ever works for an individual, then fine. But for me, all faiths, including Wicca, are false. The whole concept of God /Goddess is false.
FOR ME, everything that exists is of one energy, one source, one creation. That energy flows and swirls around us. It expresses itself as a dance of images that we perceive as the universe. My path seeks to see that connection. To feel the multitude of vibrations, to hear the music of creation. And in time to join the dance.
No one can advise you to do this that or the other thing in order to find your path. That must come from within you.
Everyone advises newbies to read, learn all that you can, ask questions.........and thats good to a point. Ultimately however, one must look inside. Examine with honesty who they are and what they believe. You must find YOUR truth. Once you do, then and only then do you really find your path.

[createholly]

Thank you! It is very, very good to be back

Hmm, that's something to think about WS. No one ever says: it's up to you to hear your true path, and understand what that means for your life.
I suppose for me knowing the right way of something gives me comfort, and maybe that is the problem. The way I was worshiping let me feel closer to the earth, able to share in its rhythms and cycles. I don't think I will let that go, but I will stop calling it a Wicca or paganism. It is just what I feel and do as someone on earth who wishes to be a good steward and live simply and truthfully. Maybe I got caught up in the need to belong to a religion to have some constant in my life. After reflection I realized that need was very misplaced. This comes at big time of changes for me and it is very encouraging to have a place to talk out my thoughts without being completely flamed. I hope to find my path in more ways than one.

[watershield]

We're here for anything you toss out CH.

I think that most people have a need to belong to "something" and the way we learn to do "whatever" remains a comforting aspect of what we know. Nothing wrong with continuing.