Curses, Hexes etc

[risingpanther]

No, Im not asking for them, but spiriting the always-needs-to-be-on-a-pagan-board ethics discussion. When does one think they can be used, and when not to? What is the line? Ill put in my opinions later =^.~=

[Goth]

Jul 4, 2008 20:53:46 GMT 1 @risingpanther said:

When does one think they can be used, and when not to? What is the line?

.....when your conscience dictates it AND when you are prepared to accept the consequences.

[watershield]

Any time you do anything in this life (magic or otherwise) there is the question of personal ethics.

Bottom line for me, if I feel no guilt then there will be no repercussions.

The whole idea of ....what you send out comes back three fold... is a state of mind. When we were little, we learned that if you do this , this, or that, it's a sin and you will be punished and go to Hell. But the bushman does This and that as part of his every day activity.
Eastern religions speak of karma. After much reading I believe what they are referring to is, the "perfect act" will not bring you karma. That act regardless of what it is, done without guilt is considered the perfect act. There is no good karma and there is no bad karma. It's just a burden that we place on ourselves, through guilt, called conscience.

[oshun11]

Very interesting food for thought WS. I'm STILL trying to break away from the whole Karma thought process thing, but it is very hard for me. For some reason, I think people like to feel guilty, lol. However, when I do break away from the guilt complex completely, I will still hold onto what I call Universal Morals... ie not killing people, becoming a theif for a living, etc.

But to get myself back on topic, I think that you draw your own line. Each person has their own rules regarding curses, hexes and what-not. I examine my motives before hexing, which I've not had to do so far. If I feel like the subject at hand is petty, or a tit-for-tat gotcha game (ex: He broke my heart so I'll make him worship me!!!) or I'm foaming at the mouth, then I let live. I know that later on I'll look back and see it wasn't worth the energy.

[Goth]

Jul 5, 2008 4:16:48 GMT 1 watershield said:

.

Bottom line for me, if I feel no guilt then there will be no repercussions.

That's interesting WS. I can see where you're coming from with the guilt thing, but surely there are always repercussions..whether good or bad?

In my opinion, lack of guilt doesn't negate consquences, but it makes them easier to bear maybe?

[aura]

if i feel it is called for to do so i will.
i have.
ive done.
do i reget it?
no.
if there is a karma or threefold law so be it,magik is magik for good or of bad.

my hex was a spell to cos some one 3 nights of hell eg bad dreams cant sleep tossing and turing dreaming of there "hell" and in my books she deserved it,i think she knew it was not normal and stayed away form me ever since.
im a bit like WS i agree with him to a point for i still forever mind the rule of three.

[Ebony]

I'm almost on the same page as WS, and like Aurora, I have done some pretty intense spells. I felt no guilt about it because what I did was nothing to what had been done to me and my family. My curses were sent out as self defense, and done for protection. If I caused someone distress or pain, I really didn't care because what they were causing me and my family.

For the most part I'm passive and easy going, but don't mess with my family! Don't use me, don't cause me or mine pain, or I will lash back. I haven't done this often, but the results were effective. I'll do it again if I need to. No hesitation.

[oshun11]

*makes a note to be nice to Ebony* lol :-)

[watershield]

Goth said:
"but surely there are always repercussions..whether good or bad?
In my opinion, lack of guilt doesn't negate consquences, but it makes them easier to bear maybe?"

Why does there NEED to be repricusions? Who's going to impose these punishments or rewards?

[oshun11]

Jul 15, 2008 4:29:08 GMT 1 watershield said:

Goth said:
"but surely there are always repercussions..whether good or bad?
In my opinion, lack of guilt doesn't negate consquences, but it makes them easier to bear maybe?"

Why does there NEED to be repricusions? Who's going to impose these punishments or rewards?

I'm guestimating that this has to do with the general theory of cause and effect. This is very interesting by the way. I'm glad this topic was brought up.

[wulfeage]

I used to believe the law of three and all the stuff about consequences which is a very Buddhist way of seeing things but.....

Having seen sooooo many throughout the years that have souls as black as night with an ego to match that lie, cheat, steal and bully their way throughout life that I have often wondered why they do not receive any Karmic/divine justice!

A thousand+ years ago our Anglo Saxon forbears saw things in a different light. Indeed if a curse was thought to have been placed upon someone in the village it was seen as a total disgrace if the cursed individual did not pull out all the stops to obliterate the person thought to have cast the spell as not doing anything would reflect badly upon the whole village therfore.... I see things thus;

If anyone attempted to "Zap" me or mine I would do my utmost to conj our fire and brimstone upon their heads going as over the top as I wished without any fear of Karmic consequences which as to yet over the last ten years has seen many disappear and myself standing firm as always.

[valkyrievoice]

I believe everything has a balance, and the law of three, or karma are ways of providing balance(s) in actions taken/given. I know that when I wove a spell for my brother, it was a spell I don't like to do because it involved the manipulation of another individual's will, he had a heart attack, like immediately. The timing lined up precisely and I dare not call it cooincidence and choose to pay heed to it and never weave such a spell again.

[PaganOne]

If you had asked me this question a few years ago, I would have said I would zap the hell out of any one who crossed me or mine. I have had a lot of the wind taken out of my sails since then.

As a healer, I can't wish or cause harm to anyone. To do so would negate my healing abilities because of the negative energy blocks I would create within myself. Sometimes simply binding the offending person or deflecting their negativity does the trick. I try to use prevention as the best weapon and keep my mind and body in top notch shape allowing me to "see it coming" and prevent the onslaught.

It has been my experience that most times it is not others attacking or wishing me ill, but my own negativity and unhealthy habits that get in my way or prohibit my well-being both mentally and physically.

[deserteagle]

Karma or fate is what happens when we go through life unconcious, when we are concious (enlightened) we overcome karma and become our destiny.

[PaganOne]

Aug 23, 2008 1:44:58 GMT 1 @deserteagle said:

Karma or fate is what happens when we go through life unconcious, when we are concious (enlightened) we overcome karma and become our destiny.

I quite agree. In my Kundalini Yoga practice, it is said that spiritual enlightenment burns off karma.