VooDoo

[Jen]

I'm not sure I grasp any of what you two are talking about.
Let me see if I've understood.
You're saying that you can superimpose your energy into an inanimate object and that object will then take on a spirit of its own??

[watershield]

Not quite hedge.
I'm saying that it is posible to create a thought form. An entity which comprises an astral body and a spiritual body and that this form can for short periods be directed to do your bidding.

It has been suggested that it might be attached to an inanimate object and bound there, but I'm not sure if it is possible. And if it is, not so sure it would be a wise thing to attempt.

In my younger days I have created these entities and used them in attacks and self defense, so I know that is possible.
It's the other part I'm not so sure of.

The only other individual I know of whom may have attempted this type of working is Brandra, but he doesn't seems to be on this board anymore.

[Jen]

Well now I'm truly fascinated and intrigued.
I'd love to hear more about this process and what the advantages are, if any.

[watershield]

Well, I've already given a basic outline for what I do or at least did. Don't know what others do.

Some years ago, I was less than nice and used magic to attack those that ticked me off. Some of them were witches and knew how to shield.
If we are talking about a protected location for instance, a T form can gain access through a resident of that site.
Once in, shielding can be dismantled. The reason would be obvious.
While I won't go into the "how" here, it worked for me.

[vermindaspirit]

watershield said:

Some years ago, I was less than nice and used magic to attack those that ticked me off.

Just out of interest WS, did you get any repercussions from this? ;D

Intreasting topic by the way~

[watershield]

No, never did

Guess that's why I can not believe in the Rede or the Three Fold Law.

[Goth]

watershield said:

No, never did

Guess that's why I can not believe in the Rede or the Three Fold Law.

IMO there are always repercussions when using magick ~ positive, or negative.....sometimes both.

For instance, I did a spell for a friend who desperately wanted to get into the police force. On her second attempt, she figured she could do with a little 'help' from me. Six weeks later, she recieved a letter saying that she'd been successful.

Ten months into her new job, she met someone else, left her husband and moved away. I now only get to see her once or twice a year ~ and her husband lost his wife. So my magick had two repercussions ~ which I was fully prepared for. As long as you are prepared for that, then no problem.

Repercussions can be very subtle. Sometimes you are not even consciously aware of them at the time. But they are there nevertheless. You may have been turned down for something, been unsuccessful in a certain venture, ignored or let down ~ while at the time wondering why?

Just my take on it

*Edit* Having said that, I don't believe it comes back to you 'times three' either

[kiowa]

Have tried to do a little web research (which wasn't easy, I kept getting online shops!). I thought these were charms, but on a closer look as Ebony says, it appears they are more like wiccan poppets. They are supposed to contain the essence or spirit of the person in whose image they are constructed, (this is only consensus from the bits I've gleaned in very rapid searches and the bits and pieces I picked up as a child). As such, I think my original premise must have been wrong, since as I said I thought they were charms. Used as a poppet, in a spell, I would have little doubt about their efficacy, placebo or no, (or both!) especially if the intent existed in the spellcasting. I would also assume probably the mass market would not be the place to get them, you would have to make them yourself, as Verminda Spirit said.

What follows then is a form of psychic attachment does it not, if the thought form idea still applies in the manner discussed since it wouldn't then be a case of binding a T form to an inanimate object. The implications of this would be interesting to explore: what happens when one "runs out of energy" and the thought form takes over, (WS) if they are bound or attached in some way to the poppet? And as Goth points out, what possible repercussions might there be! From having been a bit scathing to begin with, I'd probably hesitate before buying one and if I were to use one ever I would definitely make it myself, to be sure of the energy and intent going into the process.

Seriously out of my depth here, but it's a fascinating discussion.

Btw, WS, what did you mean when you said a T form could gain access to a protected site? Did you mean that you attached the T form to a resident of that site? Is this a parallel discussion then, in some ways?

[thylasos]

I went on a massive rant about this elsewhere, but I'll just say it simply here: Haitian Vodou in its truest tradition does not use "Voodoo Dolls"; they are an adaption from the European Witchcraft tradition of using poppets for sympathetic magic.

Voodoo does not mean the same as sympathetic magic; it's a complex and wonderfully rich religious traditions with a basis in Dahomey and a modern home in Haiti.

Just saying. Sorry.

Research Vodou! It's interesting! ;D

[kiowa]

Hi Thylasos

It might explain why most of the sites I found were online shops!! It does sound interesting, and I would like to do a bit of research. ("When" I do not know - I am still trying to get through Triumph of the Moon)

Whether these poppets are original or adaptations, I'd still be interested to know if they embody the spirit of the person they are supposed to represent and if it is therefore possible to psychically attach to that person via a thought form? Or are they just inanimate objects which would be more problematic in attaching to for the reasons WS outlined? And it doesn't answer the other question either: about how one could use a T form to enter a protected site. (I suppose I am going completely off topic, maybe I should start a new thread)

[watershield]

I started this thread to generate some discussion, so if it starting change direction thats fine, the discussion is what is important.

Anything relating to attaching a T form to a doll or other inanimate object, I admit I don't know. Never tried it and would be reluctant to do so.
As to attaching a T form to a person...
Yes it can be done, I've done it, but I won't explain it here.
The object is to obtain access to a circle or get inside a shield.
It's been many years since I felt the need to do that and it's not something to take lightly.
When I replied to V that I never received any reprocusion, that not 100% true I guess. I did but not in the Karmic sense.
When you dabble on the dark side you tend to attract negative influences. It was only with the aide of my guides that I was able to move away from that aspect of magic and gain an understanding of the balance.

Using these dolls to attempt to work magic on others.....
If you made the doll, infussed it with your energy, and intended it for use by you or someone close to you that was aware of it and what it was for...it could have benificial affects.

To use a doll made by someone else in a process that was not fully known or to attempt to bind a spirit with in one....tends to lean toward to dark side again. Not so sure I'd want to go there again.

[kiowa]

Hi Watershield

I assure you my interest is purely intellectual and raises the immediate question of the apparent contradiction here between this and the thread on free will.

I cannot see, if one adopts the free will theory that any of the above can be possible, the person concerned would just slough off any attachment. If they cannot, then their will has been subjugated.

[Goth]

watershield said:

When I replied to V that I never received any reprocusion, that not 100% true I guess. I did but not in the Karmic sense.

I believe that karmic consequences and repercussions are the same thing. Cause and effect.

But hey, that's just me

[watershield]

Hi kiowa
I understand what you are asking about free will

The key here is that the T form is more like a hitch hiker, just along for the ride. It's not attempting to do anything except ride across the thresh hold. Once inside it gets off and deals with only the energy within the space, nothing in this physical plain

[natureschild]

I went to a Voo Doo shop in New Orleans before Katrina hit and unfortunately I had imbibed a little more than I should have so my sub consious shield was down(I was not actively practicing at the time either). I was hit by a force so real it made me want to vomit in the street. I hit the door running and my beloved husband was annoyed with me and didn't understand but he did escort me out of the shop post haste! There were all kind of dolls and the like around. To cut to the chase, yes it is a scam plan and simple. You are trusting that the creator of the dolls intention is what you want also. If you are seeking love, money, success, revenge--anything you desire take the time to put your own energies into that and not trust the Wanga doll to do these things for you. Lets face it, there are no real or lasting short cuts to love, money, success and revenge is best handled by the experts like Karma .