Is it time to hide?

[watershield]

No, I'm not interested in debating the politics of the world. Only pointing out (from my limited vantage point) that the "Pagan Community" has little to fear as a direct threat.

The growing hatred between Islam and Christendom will be providing the majority of the action for quite some time.
But bullets don't ask ones faith before penetrating ones head, so it's always wise to stay low.

As to protecting "our pagan culture" or as you stated, what we believe in....which belief.
The biggest problem with this so called community is that there isn't one common belief. Ask one hundred pagans to define what it is they believe in the morning and again at night, you'll get 200 answers (if not more).
The largest portion of Neo Pagan's are trying to recreate faith in Gods and Goddesses from mans long faded past. Based on some scratches on rocks or some pill of stones that no one really knows who or why they where created in the first place.
What do you want to save....Wiccian rites, Druid rituals, all made up with in the past 50 - 60 years.
How would you save it? On paper that can rot and decay or burn. On CD that will be unaccessible in 10 - 20 years.

The only thing that can be preserved that is worth the effeort is our own free will, our willingness to question. Our determination to seek the truth. Our common sense to decide whats important and meaningful to us. Our trust in our own faith to reject what is false. Our objectivity to see that our truth may not be the truth of others. Our honesty to self, our integrity in deed and in word.
These are values that need to be shared not locked away.

[thatguy]

Well, in general I have to say I've had it up to way over my head with those who are so arrogant that they feel they are in the right, or they think they know 'the truth'. I'm tired of the fortunate judging or exploiting the unfortunate, and I'm sick of and despise the stuck up and intolerant.

I say don't hide at all, if some kind of war is coming, just make sure you win. As an aside, I'm now of the opinion that mercy is a highly overrated concept.

tg

[redwolf]

Well Watershield, I have to agree with you getting more than two Pagans/what nots to go in the same direction is as useless as herding cats. And I will be willing to bet serious money givena few minutes any answers you get from them will run into the thousands! Egos, opinions and money wrench throwing for its own sake 'free thinkers' is what we are plagued with!

What so save? Hide? As a start the documents we used to begin our studies and re-creations of the current various forms of Paganism begining with the stuff that was published since M. Mead. It was enough to begin what we have, it could be enough to keep it going and perhaps re-build again if needed. Private collections, opinions and as accurate and perfect a history as can be created of what we as a group or groups did in the XXth century would eb a help.

At least that way if it all bagan again t some future date, and I believe it will, at least that start will be a step beyond where WE began.

thatguy, "just make sure you win" what makes us who and what we are surviving IS our winning. No one can life forever but leaving traditions, ideals and a positive mark on humanity is the best anyone can hope for.

Mercy? Depends.

[moondaughter]

Perhaps it is because I am in one of the more northern states of the US(little old Delaware) but I have seen an increase in tolerance. When I would talk to people I would never be like, "Hey, by the way, I'm a pagan," but my friends did know. And a lot of them were really interested. I lost more than half of my books to my friends because they were too afraid to obtain the resources themselves. Also, I recently took a trip a little south to Virginia and was surprised to see many metaphysical stores on the boardwalk.

And ever since Pres. Obama was elected into office, I haven't been that worried. Maybe that is me being naive. However, the witch trials and all took place in times in history where there wasn't an internet or a local bookstore. That doesn't mean that ignorance disappears, for there is just as much bs to read online or in books as there is legitimate information. But it does offer a place for people to find out that paganism/wiccan/etc. ect. isn't what people think it is.

Again, I might be acting dangerously naive and nonchalant, but I'm not too worried.

[bluemoon]

OK, I'm probably a little older than many of you, and I'm in the UK so what I'm about to relate will have little relevance to some, BUT:-
Anti-pagan feelings are not something that has been lost in the mists of time. There was a tremendous backlash against pagans in the 1980s. Firstly, there was a terrible fuss about 'New Age Travellers' and anti-nuclear protesters, some of whom were indeed pagan, many of whom were not. Either way, paganism took the fall for this. Right-wing newspapers in particular painted paganism as something to be feared and stamped out. A child was born at the Greenham Common womens' peace camp and the outcry was beyond belief. The general consensus being that 'hippy' pagans made bad parents. Most of this was because these two groups of people were actively challenging the Thatcher government. Fortunately, at this point, libel and slander of pagans in general was about as bad as it got, - though those at Greenham and Stonehenge had it rough - but a short time later there was the 'Satanic Abuse' scandal and things became very dangerous indeed. Children were taken from their homes in midnight raids, accusations of child sacrifice were rife and the whole thing became a serious national hysteria. Even a hint that you were pagan could land your kids in care (to these idiots the difference between Satanism and paganism didn't exist, so arguing about it was pointless). Did I keep quiet about my beliefs? Too right I did, at the end of the day my kids were far too precious for me to risk losing them. Someone earlier equated persecution of pagans with that of the Jews in Nazi Germany, and some of it was indeed very similar, especially the part where kids were encouraged to 'inform' on their parents, but in this case only after they'd been seized from their beds, disorientated, put into care and repeatedly interrogated. These were babies, toddlers and young children remember, they were going to say anything if they were asked enough leading questions. In the end not one accusation of Satanic abuse was ever proven, but lots of people's lives were destroyed by it.
There was a major recession in the early Thatcher years and it's more than possible that pagans were scapegoated to make her seem a 'strong' leader when she confronted them. First in their guise as New Age Travellers and Peace Campaigners, then later, in another economic downturn, as perceived 'Satanists', in fact it's probable that the first purge made the second acceptable as people's minds were already attuned to the idea of pagans as anti-social and so it was a short step to branding us as 'evil'.
The fact is a western government in the late 20th century used 17th century tactics against a minority, they couldn't burn us, but they could take away our children (possibly for ever) which is actually a bigger threat.
If it happens again will I keep quiet? Absolutely not. As I've grown older I've also grown more belligerent, but if I'm honest the real reason I'll put my head above the parapet is because my kids are now over 18.
Having said all that paganism is certainly more mainstream these days and if a person is not pagan themselves there's a good chance a family member or work colleague is and so the general population might not be as easily taken in by the lies. I would hope so, anyway. What does worry me is the fundamentalist trend in the states shows no sign of abating just because there's an intelligent realist in the White House and the US is ultimately from where those original 'Satanic Abuse' ideas sprang, manipulated in the UK by a fundamentalist British M.P. As so many M.P.s are standing down at the next election we shall have to be very careful for whom we vote to replace them.

[nini]

No. It all depends where you are. Unfortunately in the place where I am, paganism, witchcraft and belief int he supernaturals are really supposed to be hidden, else you'll end up burnt while hanging on a tree!!!

[redwolf]

Then the anwsers all seem to point to individual preferences and locations. Wiht no single, over all stance. Like I said before, getting more than two or more pagans, or whatever is the title de jour, to move in a generaly similar direct is like herding cats. And as I said before, good luck to us all.

[muladzh]

During the ages of darkness, where those different were attacked by church piety, very few of the attacked were competent witches, most were simple herbalists, with little or no metaphysical control. They often were lonely women that had a pet cat, and they, like many others, talked to the cat; they, however, were condemned for that.

My family has unbroken lineage to life over 1200 years ago, Pagan then, and Pagan now, and we never lost anyone to the flame - we being from Scotland, would have burned had anyone condemned us. What I am saying here, is if you are a competent magickal being, you will not be attacked, or condemned, because your competence will empower protections for you.

Life is becoming very different at this time - financially I am managing with about half the income I had last year - this has enabled me to grow in appreciation of money, and be more frugal. I hope this new awareness will be a lasting experience, even after more money flows my way. There is a lot of unemployment happening in the area, and things seem a little chaotic, but I have no more fears now than I have had in the past - If anarchy suddenly manifests itself upon us all, I will survive, as always - plenty of food stored on hand, means of physical protection available, and plenty of supplies for my metaphysical safeguards, protections, charms and spells. And, I will survive.

If you are not adept in protection charms and spells I would suggest that now is a very good time to study them - remember, magik is within us, to be used to empower the magickal energies outwith ourselves, and it works because we know it will. Get that simple understanding, and everything you do will work. Study the means of metaphysical protection and apply them with confidence. Then, you too, will survive.

[redwolf]

<<<If you are not adept in protection charms and spells I would suggest that now is a very good time to study them - remember, magik is within us, to be used to empower the magickal energies outwith ourselves, and it works because we know it will. Get that simple understanding, and everything you do will work. Study the means of metaphysical protection and apply them with confidence. Then, you too, will survive.>>>

I like it, best advice to far. Even when times are NOT like they are now.